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I'm very disappointed with Chronoforms 7. I can't really see the business model here for how many things are found wanting.
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As with Version 6, I've been told to hard code sections to morph into Version 7. Only, the type of people who are going to use Chronoforms are not the type of people to hard code. That, rather defeats the object.
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I have attempted to create a smart contact form that can determine the Email address to send a form to from a drop down (and in some cases a, second drop down, relating to the first).
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I have messaged the admin and I have been told to write PHP blocks to input in an action. Now, if I could hard code, I'd pay someone to hard code my forms from scratch and not pay Chronoforms. If I was a larger organisation, I'd employ a PHP coder to do the job from scratch or have a development team to do the job for me.
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I find it distasteful that the new version has been released too early (again) without being fully CSS compliant such that it is barely usable on a mobile device, that a user manual has not been released alongside the launch (money grabbing) and then admin tells people to go and pay extra.

Why has this been moved into Questions and Answers? It's feedback. I guess to avoid it being seen. I'm now seriously considering posting this as feedback in the Joomla Extensions Directory now.

Hi indieben,
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I believe I moved it from the ChronoFORUMS forum where it was less likely to be seen into the ChronoForms forum here.
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I also deleted the multiple duplicate posts that you made.
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Bob

Hi Indieben,
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You seem a little confused. I think its worth noting a few things.
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The Chrono Engine team has been providing FREE use of their tool for over a decade, a restricted model was overdue and is under priced for the work they have done.
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You are wrong. I can write HTML, CSS, PHP, SQL and some Java and I use Chronoforms and Joomla. This is because there are many other things a website needs besides forms or forums...... like a lot of code. Using tools like Joomla and Chronoforms cuts down the amount of coding that needs to be done, allowing for a more efficient development process. Truth be told, It sounds like you are not qualified to be doing the work you are trying to do.
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I did not see your original post, I know for me, a kind request for assistance in the appropriate forums yields my desired outcome.

"Now, if I could hard code, I'd pay someone to hard code my forms from scratch and not pay Chronoforms. If I was a larger organisation, I'd employ a PHP coder to do the job from scratch or have a development team to do the job for me."

OBVIOUSLY YOU CAN'T CODE........You could not get 20 min of my time as a dev for what you paid for Chrono Engine. (Do you see how ridiculous your statement is?)
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Agreed it was released prior to perfection......The older versions are still available for those who do not want to contribute to this release. I knew how to use CF4, CF5 and CF6 and still chose to use CF7 understanding it is new and will have bugs. I had a bug preventing me from completing my project but Max not only assured me of an update and followed through but he also followed up to see if the update resolved my issue, and it did. A bug free application requires extensive testing......With this new model it is likely that there will be more money to pay for things like further bug testing.
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Best of luck, I would take a somewhat kinder approach if you want assistance. Search the forums, if you can't find a solution, ask your question in the forums, not via PM. Be sure to take screen shots of your issue and make sure they include the debug data. Making threats to damage someones reputation in an effort to get them to help you is not likely to work, folks like me will speak up.

Pretty sure this is the same guy that complained that the CFv6 Google Maps address autocomplete should be able to handle API keys from any mapping service he puts in.
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EDIT: yep, same guy. https://www.chronoengine.com/forums/posts/t106322/address-lookup#p381296

This thread doesn't even need a reply. People can see for themselves.

Go make your own form builder if you hate it so much

I partially agree with indieben. CF5 was much easier to customize, and had better documentation. CF7 might be great, but it's hard to tell without documentation and some how to's (not video only, but text with copy-able code examples).
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I also agree strongly with what some other posters have said. The registration price is a bargain, especially considering the amount of work done by Max and Greyhead. Even though there wasn't enough info to really convince me that CF7 would meet my needs, I paid the registration fee so I could find out.
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However, I posted two questions about dealing with AJAX requests and haven't seen an answer after several days. CF5 had events where you could pass AJAX calls to handle data saving/processing/validation against tables, and to make custom autocomplete solutions.
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I suspect that "pages" might be a rough equivalent, but sans docs, it's a guess and will take some experimentation to find out. A working example, including how to suppress the Joomla page generation and provide the required headers would be helpful.
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I'm guessing that since it fairly new, not enough people have had enough time to figure out the in's and out's, plus the time to take a break from banging their heads against the wall to answer questions.
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From a first glance, CF7 seems capable of creating simple forms for non-programmers. I seems lacking in features for advance usage, or at least they aren't easy to find. Yes, I know I can write PHP, CSS, JavaScript and HTML, but I also have a lot of unanswered questions regarding the flow of information and where to put certain code.
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Rather than lament the lack of documentation and examples, Maybe some of the early users and more advanced users/programmers could start a Wiki, or at least share some HowTo's on how they have performs some non-obvious tasks?

1. What data structures are exposed to PHP code?
2. What events are available in Javascript specific to the forms beyond the normal events?
3. How do you override the default data storage/save/etc.?
4. What is the default data storage and how does it work?
5. How do you access/change the data received (not just fiend data)? CF5 had $form->data[]. What's the equivalent in CF7?

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And list goes on....
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Any takers?

Hi,
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I'm afraid that there is little I can do to help you. While I wrote a book about CFv3 and know v4 and v5 reasonably well I know less about v6 and next to nothing about v7.
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I understand that Max - the owner and developer - has some personal issues he is dealing with (not connected to ChronoForms as far as I know). Hopefully he will resolve those and be back with us shortly.
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Bob

Hi Bob,
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Sorry Max's going through some issues. Also, I was surprised you're not more involved, considering how much you know about v3/4/5 and how helpful you've been in the past. Always figured you were close friends to Max if not co-wiorkers.
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Anyway, Do you know if it's possible to change the license from V7 back to V4? My current project would be complete by now in V4. Hopefully, Max will be back and able to answer soon if you don't know.
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Sloan

pffft. What a joke. When you get a forum with some guy that seems to solely promote his business on the forum in place of a proper support operation, you know things have gone seriously wrong. I used to love Chronoforms funnily enough. Now I can't wait for it to fall down. I'm seriously hoping Joomla get their act together and sort out proper form functionality. That's how CF has been going so long and it's unforgiveable of Joomla. It's also a great example of the dirty side of IT - lack of people skills, great scientists, not good business people.
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As for whoever's comment it was above, alledging that I was attempting to destroy, presumably Max's business - no. I actually shouted my feedback extremely loudly as the business is ignorant to feedback. That's what happens, get over it. I don't give feedback unless I believe in a business. I haven't got even the slightest faith in them anymore. I do wish him well with his personal issues though but, i'm sorry, if you handle a business like this, long before, you shouldn't be in business at all. If you want to save people coding, let them access a coding database, who wants a bloody GUI if they are that qualified? The rest of us, i'm sure want a friendly UI, well thought out, well researched and well documented. The fact that CF7 is not PHP 8 compatible is astounding considering that it came out nearly a year ago. Meanwhile, if you want to use the old versions it would appear that they are entirely unsupported. So much for those licenses.

indieben,
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You said:

"When you get a forum with some guy that seems to solely promote his
business on the forum in place of a proper support operation, you know
things have gone seriously wrong."

Who are you talking about? No one in this thread is promoting their business over "proper support". If you are referring to Greyhead (Bob), He's just another user who was really helpful with v4 and wrote some actions that were really helpful. He's provided hundreds if not thousands of hours of support (user to user) for free.
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Chronoforms is a great product at a very, very reasonable price. It works for non-programmers to create simple forms. I also works for advanced programmers, saving many, many hours of coding. That small fee charged for licensing is practically nothing. You seem to be asking a lot of a small investment. While I'm frustrated at the lack of documentation, even so it's a real bargain.
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I can certainly code forms from scratch, did it for years. But with CF the amount of time it takes to create a form is around 10%-20% of what it would be to hand code it. On more complex forms, it's more like 40%, but that is a significant savings to my clients. If you find someone that will hard code 100's of forms for you for $25, let us know. The would be charging way less than a penny per hour. There is no cost comparison between you hiring a consultant, or an in-house programmer to using Chronoforms. You can hire a programmer to write some of the code using Chronoforms for a lot less than them doing it from scratch.
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To give you an example, say you need a login form. If you hire a consultant to write it "from scratch" (including JavaScript and CSS), it'll cost you maybe $300-$500. In Chronoforms I can write that same form in an hour or less, and would bill it around $80. See the difference?
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If the forms you want to create are beyond the basic features of Chronoforms, they are probably more complex forms requiring advanced features. In that case, of course those forms will require some programming. Form creation and management are beyond the scope of Joomla as are many other tasks. That's why there are so many extensions. If Joomla added everything people might think should be included, can you imagine how bloated it would become?
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Part of the cost of using a reasonably priced product like this is the time it takes to learn it's features and how to accomplish tasks. I plan on investing that time in CF7 as soon as the time-sensitive project I'm currently doing is complete. It will be well worth it.
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My suggestion is that you manage your expectations a bit more reasonably.

Hi Sloanthrasher,
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Thanks for your message but I respectfully disagree:
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1) Forms that have been coded once by a developer can be reused by the Developer meaning that there is no real time saved unless the Developer just didn't bother to save their code.
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2) Joomla has many additional options as plugins that are turned off by default and can be activated. Something like a contact form is essential to the vast majority of websites and not something to be considered as an optional extra.
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3) I've been playing with CF7 for the best part of a year.
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No, I was not referring to Bob. He doesn't remember me funnily enough under a username I've forgotten myself but we've been in touch on/off for over 10 years to my recollection. I used to have a lot of faith but we find ourselves on opposite sides of the issues with CF - still a good man though. Yes there is someone but slating people by name is a bit low so I won't.

Hi indieben,
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As a developer, I don't think you are aware of the actual development processes involved. I could be wrong, but from what you've said, I don't think you are a developer (ie. someone who writes code). In that light, I'll respond.
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Forms that have been coded once by a developer can be reused by the Developer meaning that there is no real time saved unless the Developer just didn't bother to save their code.

For simple, common forms, yes sometimes. Yet we aren't talking about simple forms are we? Creating a contact form is trivial, and yes, you could just save the code to be re-used later. It might take some minor tweaking for a new site. But if all you need are simple forms like that, there are plenty of other extensions that can handle that sort of thing. There even extensions just for that one use-case.
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But, as a blanket statement, it just simply isn't true. Yes, I save snippets of code that I use often. But 90% of the forms I develop are very client specific, and not applicable to other clients, or even other forms on the same site.
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Joomla has many additional options as plugins that are turned off by default and can be activated. Something like a contact form is essential to the vast majority of websites and not something to be considered as an optional extra.

You reference a Contact Form. Yes, some can be simple. But in my career, I've seen literally hundreds of variations: Different fields, different ways the info is saved, different actions taken when it's saved. Take a look at the Contact Form extensions on the Joomla site. There are quite a few, each meeting the needs of different people.
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Sure there are parts that are available within Joomla that aren't active by default. But you might want to examine the nature of these. They are all related to what Joomla is: a web site management tool. It takes care of a lot of the nuts and bolts like user accounts, session management, basic menus, etc.
But also note what isn't a part of the Joomla installation:

1. Templates (not counting the default template which is there just so you can see the site after installation)
2. Sales Storefronts
3. Accounting
4. CRM
5. Custom Form development
6. And 1000's of other extensions, all of which add to Joomla on a selective basis.

Joomla does include a couple of essential forms: User Login, Logout, and New User. It does not contain a general purpose form creation tool, nor should it. Many, if not most, users will never need a custom form. The "extras" included in the distribution are things used by many, many users. But not features used by a very small minority

(continued...)
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I find it distasteful that the new version has been released too early (again) without being fully CSS compliant such that it is barely usable on a mobile device, that a user manual has not been released alongside the launch (money grabbing) and then admin tells people to go and pay extra.

If you think $25 is "money grabbing", you might want to re-think your statement a bit. I find it offensive, and I'm not even the developer.
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This is developed by one person, and he's not making a ton off of it. Keep in mind how long it was offered for free. Also keep in mind how inexpensive it is. Yes, I would love to see a user manual and other documentation. But I would also expect to pay a good bit more, a lot more. To have all that in place, there would need to be a larger staff, all of which would expect their paychecks to clear the bank. But wait! There's more! You'll need to keep the programming staff busy working on bug fixes and next version. They'll also have to take time to educate the support staff on the new features. Oh, I almost forgot, you'll also need project and product managers. Then there's the infrastructure needed to support that staff. All of that adds up to big bucks. So, does $25 still seem like price gouging?
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Let's say you decided to create your own version of Chronoforms. Get out your checkbook. You're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in development. People who code at the same level as Max do not come cheap. I know, I've looked at his amazing code and learned a lot from it, even after programming for 40+ years. Also you'll spend a lot on advertising and support. So, you'll have a significant investment you'll need to recoup. So what's a reasonable price point? Too high and you freeze out small developers, students and hobbyists. Too low and you'll be hiring a bankruptcy lawyer.
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It comes down to this: Reasonable expectations.

Hi,
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As I said earlier Max - the owner and developer - is going through some personal issues, the last time I heard from him directly was in March and he last logged in here in July. I hope that he will be back shortly but cannot be certain of that :-(
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Whatever happened it was shortly after the launch of CFv7 - hence the lack of a manual and some residual bugs. There are a few CFv7 videos that can help with the basics.
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Personally, I am pretty much retired now. I did write the book on CFv3 and kept fairly well up to date with v4 and v5. Max did pay me a commission for my help but that stopped - at my request - a while ago as I was no longer able to give the time needed. I am spending a bit of time each day responding to questions here and from the Contact emails (which are still copied to me). But as I am not very familiar with CFv6 and not at all with CFv7 my ability to help is limited.
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And my apologies for not remembering Indieben - there have been many users passing by me here and as I get older it's hard to remember them all.
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Bob

Bob,
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First all, thanks for all the help you gave me and others, especially on CFv4. Your insight and knowledge were invaluable. You have always been polite, professional and understanding. Commission or not, I'm sure it was pennys per hour! You have been a great example of how we a should act.
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I hope you enjoy your semi-retirement, I'm sure it is well deserved!
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I hope Max is able to resolve whatever issues he has to deal with. He is a real asset to the Joomla and WordPress communities. After all his hard work, I certainly am willing to cut him some slack, and understand that his temporary absence is justified, even without knowing what the nature of the cause. (not my business anyway).
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CF7, in time, will be my platform of choice. Even though I'm having to use an older version of CF, it's an ok work-around for the lack of knowledge in CF7. When the immediate pressure of my current project subsides, I'll get to work learning CF7.
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You are appreciated!!
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Sloan

We were using ChronoForms version 4 for many years and now have purchased version 7. We are getting the hang of creating the from and we are using our custom less files to edit styles. I am unsure what the differences between the log table and the database table are and am not sure where values are being saved, etc. Nor how to retrieve them to create custom e-mail responses. We just keep adding and removing to see what happens. And each time, we fail to have the field names generate anything.
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What I really want to know - and this was simple in version 4 - where can I customize the e-mails that are sent to the admin and also the user of completed the form? I was told to use the Advance Forms selection, but I have zero idea of what is needed to recreate all the unique layouts we did for your clients. What is returned in an e-mail will be totally unacceptable by our clients and looks fairly elementary schoolish.
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This being said, version 7 creates web accessible forms almost 99.9% of the time. ADA web compliancy is a mandate for us so we're grateful for this. Responsiveness is ok, but tweaking is still required, especially for handheld devices.
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However, we are hoping someone can point us to where we can code the e-mails. AND - if this is explained somewhere in a forum or a video (so far none found on the topic) let us know. We are just starting to rebuild 60 or so forms using CF7 and this hiccup of not knowing where to customize the e-mail responses is a road block.
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Thanks in advance.
Sharon C.

Hi Sharon,
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I think I have already answered your questions privately; I'll repeat the answers here as they may help other users.
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Basically the Contact Form layout is intended to make it very easy to create basic forms with most of the decisions made for you; the Advanced layout includes many more options and settings.
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If you use the Advanced Form layout then you can add a Multi Field element from the Areas menu. This will allow you to group inputs side by side.
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As far as I can see using the Advanced Form layout will let you customise the Email layout.
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In the Advanced Form setup you can go to the second 'on submit' page of your form; then switch to Action View; click the Basic menu (I think that's the correct one) and drag an Email action into the form. Next click the gear wheel 'setup' icon in the action and you will see the various email settings including the form HTLM.
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When you have the form open there is a button with a 'book' logo near the top right. This opens a 'ShortCodes CheatSheet' where you will see that the shortcode for a form data item is {data:field_name}
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To save to a DataBase table you can add a DB Save action from the Database menu in a similar way to the Email action. You can then link this to a table - as far as I can see you can't create a table automatically though.
There is a 'built-in' option to automatically save the form data to a log file - that is good for a back-up record but I don't think it will do what you need.I think you need to build a data table manually to match your form data - or use a copy of the old table if you are rebuilding older forms. Then in the Save Data action you can select that table.